Conversations – The Hub Queen of Narcissism, Part 2/2
70Summary:
What comes first, thinking or writing?
Is writing an Act or an Art? Is thinking an Art or an Act?
Writeronline shares his opinion on those fundamental questions.
I asked the question:
In writing what comes first writing or thinking?
My thought process is circular - what I mean is that after I read what I have already written, it seems that I read it for the first time - my eyes open only after I pour my soul onto the paper/well, anything... electronic...
- In writing what comes first writing or thinking?
Listing of the answers to the question: In writing what comes first writing or thinking?My thought process is circular - what I mean is that after I read what I have already written, it seems that I read it for the first time - my eyes open only afte
And while the answers were almost
what I expected,
one won the prize of my AFFECTION:
91
Dave Mathews says
HOW CAN YOU WRITE SOMETHING, WITHOUT THINKING FIRST WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY? IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR WORDS TO FLOW FROM ONE'S FINGERTIPS TO THEIR KEYBOARD WITHOUT THINKING WHAT THEY WISH TO WRITE.
My answer:
THANK YOU, DAVE MATHEWS, FOR CAPITALIZING – IT MAKES IT REALLY HARDER TO READ, BUT I GOT YOUR POINT. NO NEED TO SCREAM IT, I GOT IT. I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION, THOUGH.
I used to think that it was as straightforward as it seemed. Until I began writing in earnest. I did not “earn” much, but I realized that writing was a very peculiar thing. Very peculiar and undeniably circular. And after I have written tons and tons of literary ore/crap, I realized that now, NOW is time to think about it IN EARNEST.
To read and think.
And that is why I am coming back to all of my writings to read them again.
And I read my comments
[what I mean is all the comments that are left for my articles
by my readers and my own responses]
and now I see a lot more than before.
I make this CONCLUSION on my own and only for myself.
To me, real thinking comes after writing.
Maybe because I can cut out all the crap and see for the first time the essence.
The quint-essence of my writing.
Finally. It is about time.
Without further ado, let me introduce a writer whom I hold in highest esteem
Writeronline
The text that I quote below is a comment he left for my article
- Creating a Vision - Transformational Power of Writing
Writing has a tremendous power of transforming lives. To write you need to come to terms with your creativity and imagination. To understand what you have written, however, you need patience.
Take it for what it is.
I did not edit one single word.
"What comes first? Thinking or writing?"
Writeronline:
As you point out, there are no limits to creativity and no definition either.
It is whatever it is, to whoever is expressing him or her self.
Which, to me, since writing and thinking are both creative processes, also means that there is no answer to that question. Except maybe, "It depends"…
Because there really isn't a question either.
(And of course I know you know that already.)
Myself, I've always felt the need to marshal my thoughts before actually starting to write
- a hub,
- a brand strategy,
- a business plan,
- an ad,
- a story.
But guess what?
I marshal my thoughts by first 'having' them randomly, and expressing them in rough form - in writing. Am I thinking as I write, or writing as I think?
When I begin to put them into some cohesive, (which doesn't necessarily mean, or have to mean, logical) structure, and craft them into a unified piece of communication, concentrating only on that process, for hours and hours usually, there's no separation between the act of thinking, and the act of writing.
The Hub Queen of Narcissism
I know you'd like to be the Hub Queen of narcissism, but I suffer from the same affliction/delusion, about writing. So I'd prefer that last line to say "....the art of thinking, and the art of writing". But I abhor pretension, especially in the absence of genuinely great work, so I'll leave it at 'act'. Nonetheless, I do try to imbue everything I write with an intrinsic 'artistic value'; no pictures required.
I wouldn't be the first person to observe though (e.g.; as you do here...), that emptying your mind onto a blank sheet of paper is a powerful way of finding out what you think, and what you feel. Even if, in my case, the only destination for much of that output is the waste bin.
Personally, I'm glad you're honest (narcissistic?...) enough to publish what comes out of your mind. It's always a trip.
- What Exactly is Narcissism? (Explaining the Many Facets of Narcissism) - The Roadshow for Therapists
Narcissistic Personality Disorder, what exactly is it? Trying to explain exactly what narcissistic personality is takes some doing, the reason being that there are so many facets of behaviour involved.
The Universe has an excellent sense of humour
PS:
Numerology at work?
When I logged on to HP today,
my feed showed me that you'd published a new hub -
'42minutes ago'. :)
My response:
I am learning to cut my articles to manageable length. So my response will be in the next “article”. In which I fought the title, but maybe now I should or would simply accept it. Yes, I am the Queen. I have a son, Leo, the King of the Universe, the King of my Universe at least, and, you know, kings are not born by …. You know… or are they?
Now, it got me thinking again.
Let's vote (you can throw a coin)
I am the Hub Queen of Narcissism
See results without votingFranco Simone - Drops
That's how this love is living, He hides in fear to be dying And try to hide this joy That grows in the silence, day day. Drop by drop, you caress me, Drop by drop I give your life If I could drink you all I drown. And pretend never see anything, If any doubt crosses your mind, Expect hidden in my sorrows That time will heal our ills Pick up drops, your illusions And keep your emotions dropwise, Drinking all, your skin your body I want to die. Dropwise cherish here in my mind These caresses, your emotions, to dream of you and so have you when you ... no ... you are.
- Google Translate
Translated lyrics of "Gotas"
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The Norton Field Guide to Writing With Readings by Richard Bullock and...
Current Bid: $30.00
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The St. Martin's Guide to Writing by Rise B. Axelrod and Charles R. Cooper...
Current Bid: $10.00
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A Student's Guide to Writing World War II by Sylvie Murray (2011, Paperback,...
Current Bid: $1.99
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I wonder what you will say…
Comments are right there.
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CommentsLoading...
Morning Kallini.
Wonderful hub.
Words fail me. I can't compete against the two main characters in this hub and that is yourself Kallini and another great hubber Writeronline.
Your question is the 64.000$ question or which came first chicken or egg and may be where is the start and where is the end. The end of one is the start of another and the start is the end of the previous.
A thinking mans hub. UP/A/I
Take care.
LOL Ghaelach
Dear writeronline:
this is a very quick note because I don't want to leave just like that - but I want to check out links you mentioned
and I am in the process of changing how I respond to comments now - spontaneity is fun, ...
before I produce 42 km of text and I can - because my inspiration is just like yours or anybody else's - when it strikes, I'd better...
Yet, I struggle with creating discipline and order...
So, I read your response and I am thinking.
The only "promise/threat" that will be carried out - there is Part 3/2 and now probably will be Part 4/2 in this "Conversation" (conversations are what they are - you cannot plan them)...
I do not feel very coherent now.
As for the (him or her self) - you are right - my bad - I don't know when and where I chopped up the "self".
I will be back.
When I saw the question my first thought was: "What was first, the egg or the chicken?" And here I see writeronline was thinking about the same question-with-no-answer.
Svetlana, I am so with you on this page. I can add nothing about this topic you have not already mentioned. I am also completely in agreement with writeronline.
I wish I had time to read what I've written in the past and all those lovely comments that had given wings to my thoughts. Lack of time is the only spanner in my works.
As always, this is a superb hub. Your pictures are stunning and the music beyond beautiful.
Thanks for entertaining me with your interesting philosophizing about writing and thinking. It was my own thoughts artistically presented.
I'm looking forward to #3/2.
Will we ever be able to stress ALL there is to stress about a topic? The more we write, the more (and deeper and wider) we think. At a certain point of time we will reach #42/2.
Take care :)
Thank you, Ghaelach, for reading and leaving a comment.
This is my second attempt at the response. The first one got deleted. I wonder...
Well,
Once again,
I am not really thinking what comes first - I am thinking how I got here
I was writing on HubPages for a year and there are so many changes in my life, things I was not able to achieve before
writing in a diary is a good idea, but it is not the same as writing in public space and getting feedback.
True, it is all about me and I, probably, earned the title of the Hub Queen of Narcissism, but the goal was
to really find out who I am.
The spoils as writeronline puts is - $25 for the last year. Hilarious...
But it makes me think, maybe I should dig deeper until I reach the Point of Stable Equilibrium.
Now, even the transformation took place, but I am at the Point of Unstable Equilibrium and it shows, it shows...
Well, what should I do?
Write, think, write, pause, think...
Yes, that kind of thing.
And see what happens next.
Thank you very much for being my reader.
Dear Martie, thank you very much for your comment.
I got so ... disorganized, with comments as well - I tend to hold them unapproved
simply because I want to give a proper answer and there are a few (yours, as well) that are already more than 8? weeks old.
The reason is
I realized if I stop and think about comments - it is as good as digging for gold
and I plan to go over my comments on old hubs.
This "conversation" may be a new beginning - when we write freely on an impulse
we often say everything there is to say.
"I wish I had the time" - Martie, you do have the time and so do I, but we choose to spend it on something else.
I am being conflicted about it (time, priorities, blah...) and it shows.
Yes, I am thinking in 42 directions...
which one to launch first?
Thank you for being
my reader
my friend
my fellow eagle
SEE YOU IN THE AIR!
Dear writeronline:
1. I will correct now "the self" part - I am glad you noticed - I felt strange about it, but it did not occur to me to check the original text. I apologize.
2. You are welcome for being featured and frankly I don't think I can ever express what I feel, the gratitude for your comments and your support - you are the only professional writer who gave me thumbs up and not only, but in the way that only you could.
There is plenty of petty criticism I get and I take it to heart and frankly, why?
One poem of mine was analyzed and now it is dead for me - I will never be able to look at it with the same eyes.
I guess literary analysis is tricky - by taking things apart - we kill the magic.
3. I will try my best to stick to my plans and publish Part 3/2 - which was my response to your comment.
4. Part 4/2 - is a thought - so we will see.
So, let me make a correction, publish Part 3/2 and then I will address your comment because it deserves a hub.
In short, I envision the path of writing as you Kallini, there are times, where I can literally splash the blank page with intellect and ingenious insight, yet this only holds true inside the walls of my mind.
Others tend to misread, misinterpret the words I use to express my emotions. Does that make me narcissistic?
I don't think so - we are all narcissistic to a greater or lesser degree - I am not in love with myself, I do suffer from low self-esteem, but I write a lot about myself - it is all part of the Self-Exploration, Soul-Searching Course and only opening up and sharing made my transformation possible.
I talked TOO MUCH about transformation, but what I may or may not have said
I DERAILED.
It was so difficult to maintain my balance on a new higher BALANCE BEAM that I spiraled down.
Did I ever suggest you read my Dreams?
http://kallini2010.hubpages.com/hub/Creating-a-Vis
Horrible story in retrospect, but it was necessary to just dump it
bye-bye, dead weight.
So, my derailing - I welcome it as well. Very simple now - by learning how to fly and how to land and how to fall from time to time...
I will be able to fly with ease INDEPENDENTLY.
Now I "take flying lessons" - it is mostly falling, screaming from pain and going back up in the AIR.
Words?
Do they matter?
Do others understand? Some do, some don't.
Keep writing until you are able to fly.
How right you are kallini2010, we are all narcissistic to some degree. There are many facets to narcissism, and ranges on a continuum from Healthy all the way to Unhealthy Narcissism. Too little is as bad as too much.
If you want to see an article I wrote on this subject, I am putting a link
Thank you, Christine, for your comment. I will link your article to mine and I put it on my FB page. I hope your article will get more readers.
Narcissism is certainly a peculiar phenomenon that we should know more about.
Thank you Kallini 2010. Educating as many people as possible is my aim.....so glad for any help in get in this direction.
writeronline Level 7 Commenter 4 months ago
Hi kallini, now there's an honour. To be featured in one of your hubs. I'm surprised, and delighted. Thankyou.
(I know you say you haven’t edited anything. But please don’t tell me I wrote “It is whatever it is, to whoever is expressing him or her”. ‘him or her self’, surely...)
Interestingly, since I made those comments, I've experimented with the 'thinking v writing chicken v egg' conundrum.
I published a hub about learning to be a better writer by doing what famous writers do. Amongst the working tips and advice is this, on getting started:
'Getting started' means just that. Start writing.
.
"Just get it down on paper, and then we'll see what to do with it". Maxwell Perkins
"Get it down. Take chances. It may be bad, but it's the only way you can do anything really good." William Faulkner
"How do I know what I think, until I see what I say?" E.M. Forster
.
I wrote a ‘stream of consciousness’ hub called ‘Is punctuation pointless?’ which sets out to prove that we can communicate surprisingly well without it. But the lesson for me was the speed with which a reasonably cogent outpouring arrived on the page. No prior thought. No thought during the writing. Just write without thinking or stopping in one step. I posted it unedited to prove the point.
But the most interesting experiment I’ve undertaken is a fictional series (Now up to Part 3, Part 4 will probably conclude it). I set out to write a story in the - extremely descriptive - style of Lee Child, (probably nowhere near cerebral enough for you, kallini..), and it’s just kept growing.
The interesting part is that it begins by describing a writer, and the way he works. It describes me. An idea strikes him at 1am, (and all ideas strike when they want to, not on a schedule we can pre-ordain), so he sits at his computer, opens a blank page, gets it down. And waits. More ideas flow. He gets them down. And so on and so on.
That’s how he writes. That’s how I’m writing the story. Sounds so ill-disciplined that it couldn’t possibly result in a cogent flowing story. But it has. Several thousand words. Published in parts, as they occur to me. Each time, I’ve sat at a blank screen, absent any pre-formed ideas, and waited to see where the story takes me, and what new characters present themselves.
For someone whose life as a commercial writer has required at least a glimmer of what the destination should be, before putting pen to paper (fingers to keyboard..) and beginning to write, this freeform process is both liberating and fascinating.
My conclusion is that writing and thinking are like two sides of a double headed coin. Spin it fast enough, and the two aspects blur into one cohesive whole.
And it makes no difference which side you’re looking at when you start.
Thanks again for featuring me kallini, I appreciate the compliment very much.